I guess that's the one thing about my department
head, my principal, my superintendent, they don't crumble when
there's a cranky parent. All of the lines of communication
are followed in a correct way, and I'm helped along the way,
and they don't give into that parent, parental pressure when
it's just a cranky person out there not getting their way.
They're very articulate about it, they're very professional,
but the buck does stop here with the department head, with the
principal and with the superintendent; no, we're not going to
crumble, this is the rule, this is the -- you were given all
these things to work through, and I'm sorry, but that's what's
going to happen.
Q. Incident -- school board?
A. We have a really great school board. We have a very dynamic -
- I guess what you need to understand is the teacher
association. We have a very -- we've always had -- since this
superintendent, we've had a very caring and cooperative
district office administration and really active teachers
association, and the teachers association has worked to get
people that we feel are pro-education on the board. Not pro-
teacher, but pro-education, open-minded. I mean, they're not
always real articulate or brilliant people, but they are
people who care and who listen and can make a decision based
on what they hear, not their emotions, and we've had really
good board people. People that have been on the board,
Candance Nagle was a member of our board, then became a house
representative last year. Well, I suppose just in --I suppose
bargaining, that they've accepted the package that has been
bargained, that they have told the bargaining people from the
district office that they will work with the teachers in
bargaining. And that's the one thing that -- I mean, it's
their job to try to make sure that the teachers don't want any
more money, you know, and that they've said that the way to
keep happy teachers is to make sure that they feel safe in the
workplace, they feel that they have the proper equipment to
work with, that they have good administration, that they get
paid well, they get appreciated, you know, put a dollar in my
pocket, and the board has always been behind that, making the
administration work with the teachers association to come up
with a decent package for benefits, for salary, for working
conditions; they've always been that way. You know, you can
only do so much with the legislature, and I suppose in that
way it's been very -- and I've been able to call board members
and crab at them. There was one time I was very upset over a
set of math textbooks adoption in the grades and I had a
hippie fit over it and I actually got two of the board members
to listen to me and make knowledgeable questions, well, what
about fractions? And they did adopt the set that I did want
and five years later I came back and -- uh-huh, what's
happened? And they did agree with me and they started to pay
better attention and then we started getting committees for
textbook adoption, not just a person with a crusade because
that is what it had been literally, a person with a crusade,
and now we have committee textbook adoptions, you know,
whether it's for grade school or high school or middle school,
but there's a committee of people and they look for a whole
year, they look over books to make that decision, it's not
just one person who wants this particular set for some reason.
And that's an outcome of that and that was because of those
two board members and I did it for five years, and they said,
maybe we don't do this the right way.
Q. Incident -- a professional organization or the teacher's
association?
A. Our teacher's association is just absolutely tremendous. We
joke in the math department that it's a closed shop, you know,
if you don't join the association, you can't be in the
department, but everyone does. We have some very dynamic
people in our department that have been high up in the
association, vice president of the association worked on the
bargaining group for four or five years; I've been a building
rep. I guess we just -- we know that if we don't stick
together -- and I guess most of our energy goes to the
legislature, and I'm a pay setter, I pay an extra $150 a year
and that money goes to actual lobbying, you know, sending
people down there, working on committees, paying release time
for teachers to be on different state committees, and I just
keep thinking that in every small -- I can't think of anything
particular -- but just keeping the association in a position
where they can active down at the legislature.
Q. What about issues with the legislature?
A. Oh, funding, you know. I think educators feel that they are
the moral minority. We really do feel like we're almost
public utilities and we plug ourselves in for nine months out
of the year. We give our very soul. I know -- my husband,
we've been married six years -- and he's appalled about at how
our life changes from September to June, I mean, we don't do
diddly, and Sunday night through Thursday night, it's school.
We don't go anywhere, we don't accept invitations, I have to
go to bed early, you know, and then I'm like this silly little
flighty person during the summer, we laugh, we go sock hopping
all night long, because I have to be ready, I have to have
enough energy, I have to have been rested, I know I'm sick but
I can't stay home, no, no, my kids need me, we'll lose a day,
you know. There are three of us in this department that have
had hysterectomies and we have literally limped through the
entire school year to have those hysterectomies during the
summer. We have done ourselves bodily harm because we just
absolutely cannot miss. Well, yes, we can, but we don't feel
we can, and the kids whine, and cry and crab and all kinds of
stuff. People have come back from having babies earlier than
they should, you know. I just -- I think we really do see
ourselves that way and so I feel that we're trying to get
people to realize -- you know, it's so broken we can't fix it
anymore. We've scotch taped everything we can, we've bought
our own paper as much as we can, you know, something has to
give. There has to be a major influx of money into education.
You know, the few, the brave and the proud, it just doesn't
work. We pooped, we're tired, we're overworked; we're all
going to retire in the next 12 years; where are they coming
from? You know, I have to lie to tell kids to go into
education. You know, if you want to make money, don't be a
teacher; if you want to love what you do, be a teacher; but
you can't do both. You can't provide an economic, secure
future for your own children. I have a kid who is number
seven out of 586 kids, right? And I am worried to death about
where she is going to go to school. How am I going to pay for
that kid to go to school? She says she wants to Harvey Mundel
(?); too bad, I can't afford that, you know. Two professional
people at home and I can't afford for my kid to go where she
really deserves to go. We just -- there needs to be more
money for the ADD kids coming up, you know; we have just the
tip of the iceberg of the children who were born, conceived by
parents who were taking major drugs, the tip of iceberg.
Maybe they're at second grade now, the emotional problems
they're seeing. We haven't even touched that yet, okay? And
the children who can't read. Where is the reading program?
The teachers -- I think to myself, people come up and they go,
you know, Johnny has always been good at numbers but he can't
read. Look in my textbook, 40 percent of it is reading. When
they mainstream the children who have always been in special
ed, we need special training. I have a counselor's degree and
I don't even feel comfortable with it, you know. All of the
computer technology, we need people -- they're scared to death
of those computers sitting in their classroom. They're still
not comfortable with the computer. We've spent thousands of
dollars to buy the machine; have we spent thousands of dollars
to give that in-service? You know. I tell my kids, when you
have children, kindergartners are going to know what you know
now about computers, they're going to have to, it's going to
be just like the chalkboard was back in the 1880s. We've done
all we can with scotch tape and love. I can just see the
burgeoning of programs that need funding. You know, I'm so
sick of the legislature saying you will do this and then not
funding it. You will teach them foreign language, you will
teach Spanish in the grades. Well, we have to back off of
that. Why? Because you don't want to fund it.
Q. Incident -- parents?
A. Oh, I think -- I've had some children who have really been
burdened with math. I can think of one, you know, the thank
you note from the parent at the end of the year. You've come
in twice a week to work with this kid, just a thank you note
that it does work, there is someone out there who appreciates
it, and it gives me that little spurt of energy to keep coming
in at 7:10 instead of 7:25. I had a mother and -- I try to be
really be my own person and I hug kids and I come up and
actually lay my hands on them, and I call them little names,
like pooky, and I tell them to quit being a --- but I refuse
to let myself become a robot and to let my own personality not
shine through, because my kids really like me. Because they
know I like them; I like them enough to be angry with them
when they're not working up to their potential; I like them
enough to say, you look kind of blue today, what's the matter?
I notice that, you know, I can't excuse them from their work,
but I am understanding enough to say, okay, bring it in after
school or that kind of stuff. I try not to make too many
exceptions but there is always an exception and they know
that. I had one mother who said to me, and I think I could
have a lawsuit and I wonder, should I back off, should I be a
little bit more of the old school marm, don't open up too much
because you open up and you're exposed to danger, and I got a
letter from a mom probably this time of year, a really nice
little letter and just said, "I just want you to know, -- and
we have a group here that's called moms -- and it's like a
prayer group, and it says "you've been my particular person
that I prayed for this year," and I thought whoa, even if I'm
an atheist, and she said, "I hope that it helped you to know
that I have been doing that for you," just a little postcard
with a flower and everything, and that really took me back,
prayer? That really meant a lot to me. And that -- like just
week, they had a little breakfast, just little goodies or
something, and I think it's so nice to know that there are
those positive people out there that do know -- that you're
trying to do something, other than getting paid to do a job.
Q. Do you feel influenced by the negative parents?
A. Oh, I try not to, I try so hard not to.
Q. Can they influence you?
A. Oh, yes, and I think they can really influence weak people.
I try not to let them influence me but I know there have been
cases where because I have had a child of parents that have
been really ugly, I've had to be more guarded, and I try not
to, I mean, I try intellectually to think to myself, no, come
on, just be yourself, don't -- but yes, it does. I am not as
open in that class, you know, and it's not the kid's fault,
but I just have to watch it. Like I'll try to diffuse things,
well, my kid said you said --- I'll go, gosh, I don't
remember, but it could be. I go, isn't it funny how they'll
come home and in the middle of passing the pork chops and
potatoes or the fried chicken, "And the teacher said . .", I
said, you know, it's the same thing, they come up around my
desk and they'll go "And my mom did . . ." and they'll go --
exactly. They only tell me half the story, they only tell you
half the story, so I try to diffuse that kind of thing. But
it doesn't always work. I'll say I am sorry, I didn't mean it
that way, I'll talk to your child, and I'll make sure that
they understand maybe what I was implying and I'll try to be
more aware of their feelings. That's all I can do. What do
you want me do? Write everything down, you know? Say good
morning, this is the assignment. You have to have
interaction. I mean, can you do every single problem every
day? No, you can't. Does that mean I don't like your kid?
Does that mean I didn't do my best for your kid? Well, then
you'll have to come in for some extra help maybe, but I'm
here; I just can't do 29 out of 29 problems on the board.
Because I'm not God and I don't want to be, you know.
Q. Incident -- in-service training or continued education?
A. We have great in-services. Usually half the day is whatever
YYY thinks we might need. And they offer several
things that you can go to, like computing services, and maybe
the computer teacher shows you had to do a spread sheet or how
to set up your grade books. Like we do stuff on school goals
and we do it with faculty, kids, administration. You notice
that everybody is kind of worried about the same things you
are, that helps. It helps to know that you're not the only
one, or this isn't just your name in a math department, I like
those and those help. Half the day is like, he'll let us do
things departmentally. The best one I ever had is we just
together with the junior high math teachers and it helped us
make a transition from what is it that we need -- you know, I
don't need you teaching trig. I need you teaching fractions
and decimals to those little 7th and 8th graders so that when
they come up here, they can do fractions and decimals, but I
can do equations, quit doing kid stuff and get back to basics.
Oh, okay. In two years, I'm telling you, the kids knew their
fractions and decimals better, you know. That was like --
that helped me more than anything to do that, and after that
we have always done that. Well, it's a good kid and I like
him, I put him in algebra; dah, not a good plan, you know. We
actually said to him, hey, here's a test you can administer
and you should look at his study habits. Not just their
overall grade and are they a sweet child? Well, then we
helped them develop like a five-point system on how to decide.
Should the kid go into algebra? Should the kid go into intro
or general or whatever? That was a big burden off their
shoulders because these parents were like, put them in
algebra, put them in algebra, and they didn't have any
definitive -- so it was a big help to them. That was a big
blessing. We did that eight or nine years ago and boy, did
that help. We update it every so often. Another three or
four years later after that, it worked out that the grades,
the junior high, the middle school, will use our books. If
they teach pre-algebra, they use our pre-algebra book; if they
teach algebra, they use our algebra book; which makes sense.
Q. So how was the book selected?
A. Any wicky-wacky way they wanted, you know. It was just --
Q. I mean now.
A. Oh, now? Well, the high school selects, and if they would
like to be on it, that's fine. Junior high teachers can be in
on it if they want to; if they don't want to, they don't have
to.
Q. A committee then that's open to the junior high school?
A. Uh-huh, if they want to, and they give us suggestions, but it
was ridiculous the way it was. Like sometimes they wouldn't
even have somebody who knew how to teach algebra teaching the
algebra. That was kind of silly.
Q. Well, you couldn't do anything about that?
A. No, but we did. We did finally get it that the person down
there will at least be a math minor teaching the algebra
class.
Q. Did you go through the district or to the principal?
A. Just to the principal and we did it with our feeder schools
basically; that hasn't been a district policy. But if they
were teaching a course that -- not that it gets high school
credit anymore, but we waive it and they jump right into
geometry, that it really had to be taught by somebody who knew
that math, not just a nice person. That was a big step for
us.
Q. Incident -- students?
A. Oh, gosh. I'd say every day. But a particular incident --
yes. When I had these little critters coming up from the
junior high that were terrible in fractions and decimals, I
really did have to change my lesson plans. I had to stress
fractions and decimals all year long. I had to make sure that
every chapter had a section where we devoted to fractions and
decimals. They were kind of eclectic in the way they taught
for a while and they did neat, fun interesting things because
it was boring to do fractions and decimals anymore even though
-- see, that was it again, it all came back to that one series
of books they came through, they did lots of neat things but
didn't do a lot of basics in fractions and decimals, and that
becomes a multi-operational thing, and that's where you lose
the child who can add, subtract, multiply, and divide, it
becomes like long division the first time when they have to
know how to do several operations in sequence, and the next
thing is fractions, see, and that's where it all starts to
fall apart. I had to really revamp. I had to go find stuff
to run off, I had to really keep that in the foreground of my
knowledge, that as I was teaching algebra, I was also building
that other stuff.
Q. Incident -- colleagues?
A. Yeah. We tend to work in groups. We'll do the algebra three
or four lesson plans, the geometry lesson plans, we'll do the
algebra test and the geometry test, the algebra exams, the
geometry exams, and just sitting down and doing lesson plans,
you get ideas, a different way of approaching something. I've
been teaching for 23 years, and all of a sudden you go, oh,
geez, I could do this this way, and we share with each other.
And it streamlines your approach. I try to make my teaching
as streamlined as possible. I joke about I call it dromedary
method, this is the dromedary way to do it, and once you teach
them how, I go back (inaudible) -- they're a lot more
comfortable once they have seen the process, and then to learn
why it works, how it works, because they figure out, if I know
how it works, and I can figure out why it works, they're much
more comfortable with that. Whereas I feel like when I was in
college, I was always taught to teach the theory and then the
process. We help each other do a lot of transitioning. I
haven't taught geometry in 20 years because I would rather
clean toilets than teach geometry, I hate geometry, so it
helps me to sit in with somebody who is also teaching a
geometry class and they remind me, and they also come to me
and they say now, I'm teaching such and such equation, which
one do you really need? or I'm teaching the ______________,
and I go, oh, I really need this one and this one, these are
nice, but these are the ones -- I call these the mother load,
these are the ones they need when they get to me. Then I'll
go -- and I'm desperate for this, you ought to get to this
quicker, and they do. We help each other all the time. I go
to the pre-cal A teacher, and we know who teaches the advanced
classes, I know who my three-four A kids are going to have
next year, and I'll say, I'm to the end of the book, I've
covered the book, what else would you like me to do or not do?
Why shouldn't I do what facilitates an easier transition for
her next year? And it's easier on the kids, you know, and we
also try to use universal language, that helps; universal
symbolism, and I don't mean universal inasmuch as this is the
way all mathematicians do it, but this is the terminology your
other teachers will use, you know.
Q. Do you feel your work life is influenced by the community?
A. Oh, yes, our parents are very -- all professionals, by and
large; we're upper socioeconomic; they want a lot for their
children and they have given their children a lot. Every once
in a while I feel like you've given them too much, and a lot
of times the biggest complaints we get is you want them to do
too much, and they have done so much for their children, they
expect us to just extend that umbilical cord and do for them;
whereas part of my responsibility -- and another thing I tell
my parents when I have open house, part of my responsibility
is to wean their child; the less your child needs me, the
better job I am doing. That's why they're just like going
nuts this year, it's like, okay, (inaudible) -- it's like
there is no one way, there are many ways to attack this
problem, you've had a whole year of the tools, and now you're
applying. They hate it, they don't like it, they say to just
show me one way, and I won't. This is the exploration time;
you can't fall apart if you look at your friend's paper and it
doesn't look anything like yours, and you've both got the same
problem, you just did it a different way, you know. They hate
it, and their parents want us sometimes do too much for them,
and I have to tell them that we're trying to educate them to
be logical thinkers and if we're going to do it all for them,
honey, you do this and this, you'll get to -- then how are
they going to learn the process and not just the product? We
are trying to teach them to be processed people, to be able to
process information and come up with, yes, a correct answer,
but we would like some creative answers, too, you know. They
have a hard time with that and a lot of our children are the
oldest, because there are so many new homes, so they've come
in with them, and we've got like the oldest child and oh,
that's hard. They call up and they need a lot of counseling.
They don't recognize this child as a teenager, their first
teenager, we have to do a lot of that kind of stuff, and we
have to tell them that as abnormal as it may seem to you, it's
pretty normal. So I have to do a lot of that kind of
counseling on the side. I suppose that sometimes they want
to push their children too far, love the children you have,
not the child you want, I have to do a lot of that, too.
Don't push so hard, you know. Wanting your child to take
algebra when they should be in pre-algebra, but it doesn't
sound cool to say that, you know. I have to do a lot of --
they're not at that level now, and maybe you can feed me more
information on why that is, but that doesn't mean that they
won't be at that level, they just may not be on your time
schedule, and we have to talk about -- I do a lot of
counseling that way, don't make too many demands, like, you
know, make short-term goals that they can handle, not "I want
an A at the end of the semester," so --
Q. A little different question. Can you describe a creative
attempt . . . ?
A. I don't know how creative it is, but at the other schools I
have taught at, I always -- the last quarter of the year I let
them use their notes and homework on tests and quizzes,
because I'm trying to teach them not to memorize and most math
is applied math to some field, it isn't just math for the sake
of the math, it's math to do something, and that you learn
where to go to get that information, you pull it out of a
file, you pull it out of a program, you know, and yes, you
memorize some things because that's just day in and day out,
but you're going to need some stats for that, you don't have
the stats memorized but you know where to go to get it, you
know. So I've always just -- I'm not taking any other grades
and tests and homework. Now, the tests and homework have come
from their homework, you know, absolutely the same problems, -
- there were suggested assignments and we corrected them but
I didn't take grades on them, and then I would list some of
those problems and put them on the test. I would list
examples from what we did in class, and if they had it in the
book, all they had to do was copy them down, and I want to do
that here, to show them that it's how well you prepare, you
know, what you bring with them, and the only thing is their
own homework and their own test, they can't go Xerox somebody
else's, and I got a big NO on that. My department head said
no. It's got to be an individual anxiety or bias on his part,
I can't figure out why. I do the notes, you can have your
notes in here and your homework during tests, but I still take
that daily grade. I don't know why. I'm trying to teach them
that by the time they go to the workplace, you only get paid
for the end product, so it's kind of like you teach them to
appreciate the process and the process is important, but you
have to remember when you go to that workplace, you know,
putting in your eight hours isn't going to do it, you have to
have the bridge and it has to be done correctly and on time,
but he didn't like that at all.
Q. Failed attempt . . . .
A. I can't think of any. I just can't -- One time we did some
community goal things that I wasn't much interested in and I
just kind of went through what I had to but didn't implement
it at all. I was so negative on it that I can't remember what
it was. No, I really can't think of anything. There were no
consequences because I didn't.
Q. What does it mean to you when people talk about bureaucratic
constraints on teachers?
A. One of the things I really love about this school is that all
appropriate teaching methods are acceptable. I was very
worried when I came here -- I've been at Sunset since it
opened --
Q. How long has that been?
A. 1980. And I was at the middle school, DDD Middle
School for two years, I was a high school teacher at the
middle school, I really hate middle school, I mean, I really
hate 7th and 8th grade kids, they drive me nuts, teaching is
not just worth it. I always joke, we ought to have some type
of public relations work that 7th and 8th graders can do, take
them out, let them paint houses for people who can't afford
it, let them beautify the highways, let them work with special
ed children, you know, whatever, and let them have a party
every night, feed them pizza, and let them die and get them
back up the next morning, and then after two years, you ought
to say, now, you can keep doing this the rest of your lives or
you could go back to school and do some of these other things,
you know. It's ridiculous. So when I came up here, I told
John, you know, I'm pretty old fashioned, I suppose; I have a
correction period, I have a lecture period, I have a time
where I let them work and ask individual questions, and once
in a while I let them work in groups, but I'm not very
innovative, I'm pretty much chalkboard, and he said that was
fine. Then there were other people that did all cooperative
learning, everything is cooperative, the group -- that's what
we do. People team teach, we do thematic stuff once in a
while, but if you're doing a good job and you're comfortable
with it, and I guess the idea is that children need to be
exposed to different personalities, different temperaments,
different approaches, you know, and I always love it when they
say, well, they just don't like you, we're going to have move
them to another place, and that doesn't go in this school,
that never goes. You do not move a child because they don't
like the teacher. We flat out tell them, you know, hey,
they're going to be in the workplace and they're going to have
to work with people and under people that they maybe don't
care for, and that's the way it is, and you should learn it
now when you're 15, you know. A lot of times I have shy
children who don't particularly like me, but after I get them
to be comfortable, they're okay, but sometimes I'm just a
little bit gregarious for some children, and I go, well,
thanks for telling me, you know. You can't -- and that's
always just a ploy -- they think you're too hard or they think
they're going to have an easier time somewhere, and I try to
still work with the mothers and I try to still say they can't
do this for them their entire life, you just can't be a buffer
for them all their life, how frightening it's going to be the
first time it happens. You know, we can work together and we
can try to work out a better comfort zone, but this is me, I'm
48 years old, I can't change my temperament and personality
now, you know. And that's always a neat thing to know -- we
do not change teachers, because every year somebody tries
that. You can't let that happen because what's going to
happen? They're going to seek the lowest level.
Q. Do you feel any bureaucratic constraints in your work life?