TEACHER INTERVIEW Sunset High School May 26, 1992 Q. How long have you been teaching? A. Eighteen years. Q. And how long have you been here? A. About 10, 10 or 11. Q. Almost since the school opened. A. Uh-huh. I came the second year. The first full year. The first year they had a full. The first year I think they only had through juniors. There was no senior class. They didn't want to whip it away from -- A lot of times they do that because they don't want the seniors to come and be first year seniors, so they start with just freshmen through sophomores, freshmen through junior depending on what it is that way. The senior class will be here at least two years and then they graduate. Q. Good idea. It would be tough. A. Yah, to have three years of that allegiance and the ripped away and graduate from a different school is kind of emotional so they try not to do that. Q. Influenced by principal? A. Yah. The first one that comes to mind here, I've had instances at all three schools that I've been at but the first one that comes to mind here is fairly recent in which I made some changes last year in my approach in class in my methodology and the principal went out of his way to call me in and say "Hey, I've heard good things. This is really working, What can I do to support you?" And that really boosted me in terms of knowing that I'd done something right because they were seeing differences in terms of parent complaints and all the various things that give you a sense of how you're doing. Q. Was this in the classroom or just from the other areas that you've done? Other indicators lessons, --- A. It was all kinds of things. You get feedback from counselors about students' reactions and parents of course call in and talk to the assistant principals and principals and counselors and everybody, they seldom call you, you know to do it. Q. Influenced by department chair? A. So many. I didn't really have a department chair until I came here. I'm trying to think of one specific instance. My department chair is extremely supportive and an awfully good problem solver and I can't just off the top of my head think of one specific instance. I guess I can't -- there was a miscommunication between myself and the department chair about how long I was going to be on leave a couple years ago. I took several days off and he wasn't aware of it and when I came back it became apparent that the substitute was not as qualified as I might have thought that they were going to be and so I needed to have left more detailed instructions that I did. I left very generalized instructions and that wasn't appropriate and it caused some hardship for the rest of the department in terms of helping her out and doing things like that and it wasn't anybodies, it wasn't the substitutes fault I just had not read properly into how much I needed to prepare when I had talked to that individual ahead of time because I was out for several days. More than a week as a matter of fact. And when I got back I felt great but then I found out that there'd been lots of problems and I went in and talked to the department chair and asked his guidance as to what I could do because there was obviously some resentment on that and we talked it over and he helped me come to a decision on what to do to smooth that over, so that was one instance where he, helping me problem solve and determine what I needed to do to correct that situation. But that's just instance where I and many other people in the department have gone in with a problem and gotten a good recommendation as to how we might proceed. Something we hadn't thought of before. Q. Influenced by superintendent? A. Yes. Several years ago I finished my master's degree and started on a Ph.D. and I got about 2/3 of the way through and got to the point where I needed to serve a residency and I applied for a sabbatical which I was qualified for because I'd been here in excess of 7 years, which was the requirement, went through all the hoops and then was told by the superintendent "Gee, you have a great program. It looks fine but I'm sorry we can't do this because there's no money." Even though we'd had an agreement, the bargaining unit had an agreement that all approved sabbaticals would be funded and in essence I was told, "We're not approving your sabbatical because there's no funding and we're not approving any funding because there are no approve sabbaticals." So basically, the superintendent told me to "buzz off" and forget my doctorate and so I was very negatively affected by the superintendent in that case and I've had a very poor opinion of that individual since. Q. Influenced by school board? A. Only indirectly and that's this year and I don't think the school board bargained in good faith this year through their team and I don't know if that's really what you're looking for. I don't, and that's the personal, the monetary end of it and all of those things. Other than that I can't think of any instance where I've had a specific dealing with the school board that has affected me in the classroom directly. Q. Influenced by state or federal programs or regulations? A. Well, prior to coming here I worked for HHH School, which is the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Now under the Title I program and that greatly effected, it effected everything we did in the classroom in terms of the curriculum and how things were done. Q. Like dictated. I'm not familiar with Title I. A. It dictated -- it was a supplemental program. It was supposed to be to supplement the students who were below grade level, that's basically what it was and it could not supplant, take the place of existing programs. It had to supplement and so, in essence it had to be prescriptive and there were a lot of regulations dictating it. I didn't agree with many of those. It had to be individualized instruction, which I felt was a gross waste of our time, but we were forced into doing what we did -- a prescriptive, individualized program for every student, so we were reteaching the same material, over and over and over every time somebody got to that point. So I think that very negatively affected my performance. State mandates, state and federal mandates now are probably the worst I have ever seen in terms of Attention Deficit Disorder, some of the special ed conditions because now basically they're saying, "You have to do everything for this child and you can't put them down or treat them any worse -- you basically have to everything, regardless of your funds, regardless of your abilities, regardless of the other people in the class, you have to do everything for this student." If it requires lowering your grading scale, you have to do that which I think is a gross misjustice and right now, it's just being defined what those things are but its coming down absolutely ludicrous. Q. Who's defining what those criteria are? A. Mostly the federal regulations. Q. They defined who the child is and then who defines how you accommodate that child's needs? A. Basically what they've said is "You have to do everything, without any guidance, without any money -- nothing. You have to do everything for this child." Even if he's not identified, you have to do it. Even if you don't know you're responsible for doing it. And that's what we're arguing at. How are we supposed to do that and they said, "We don't care how you do it, just make sure you do it." And it's rapidly, many of us have gone, "Well, maybe it's time for us to get out of education because when they expect us to be mind readers, then I don't know how we would do that. Q. How would this be monitored? A. Who knows. Basically, if somebody gripes then it's law suit time. Anybody can bring a law suit. They can go back years and say "Well, you didn't do it and this person turned out to be". You can say, "they weren't identified at the time, so tough luck." You can still be sued. Q. Hard to deal with. Influenced by parents? A. Yes. A couple of years ago, I mean of course there are many, many instances where that happened, but the first one that comes to mind was a set of parents whose child was an athlete and this was shortly after the "no pass-no play" rule went into effect. And in a casual conversation at an open house, they said "Let us know if there are any problems." Well, I sent home a deficiency end of year, but they felt they wanted a personal call if there was any chance and they instituted and forced us through the parental complaint procedure, which is their right but it, that puts a real strain on your emotional and physical being to go through all of that. Q. What is that? A. We have a Parental Complaint Procedure where they can file a written complaint and then it has to go through hearings and all kinds of things until it's resolved and I felt it was a totally unjustified complaint based on one comment, a passing comment as we talked at an open house for 20 seconds. They felt that somehow I should remember that and should give them a personal call every time their child started having trouble and they felt I should be able to do that and I disagreed. Q. How did that get resolved? A. Well, we have hearings that go to the assistant principal, then the principal then it can go to the assistant superintendent for instruction -- it goes up the line, potentially all the way to the school board unless it's resolved in the meantime. Ultimately the school board has the resolution or the parents could file a law suit. Q. How was this resolved? A. Well, this one went through a couple of steps before it became apparent that they had no grounds for anything, but its just like any other situation, a law suit. It may be frivolous but you still have to defend it and you have to go through the emotional trauma of that. This one I think, we had two hearings on this and then they didn't pursue it any further. Q. Did they want you to change a grade? A. Basically, yes. They felt there should be, I'm not sure they really said that. They wanted to vent is what it was, at my expense. That's what ultimately came out of it. Q. I just wondered what their end goal would be. A. Well, their disturbance about it was she was ineligible for state finals in the sport she was in. And they said, "Well, she's worked for all these years to become wonderful at this and now she doesn't get to go to finals because of your class." I said, "No, it's because of her grades in my class." She didn't come in for -- we went in to this whole thing. They said "Well, why didn't you call us and tell us --". To send a deficiency notice home is all I need to do but they felt more should have been done to protect their cherub from not going and that's what I say, they wanted to vent more than, because there was nothing that could be changed at that point. She had missed the state finals and there was nothing that could change that even if we'd changed the grade. Q. Influenced by a professional organization? A. I can't think of a specific instance where it has aided my professional or emotional status other than the general support that I do feel from the association and the other members within. The sense of belonging, the sense of knowing there is a place to go to get some support is what I would say there. I can't think of any specific instance where they've come to my aid, so to speak or anything. The only negative one I can think of is the one I talked about before with the sabbatical. I found out later that there was a tacit, under- the-counter agreement for several years that there would be no sabbaticals in spite of what was in the bargaining agreement and I asked the person "Why did you", one of the leaders in the association, "why did you have that in." And they said, "What made you think there would be money to do this?" And I said, "Because it's written right here that it says it will be funded." And she said, "Oh". Well the next year that language was changed in bargaining to say "If there's money, it will be funded", which in effect was saying, "There will be no more sabbaticals." Which would have been fine. I don't have a problem with there not being sabbaticals. What I argued with was the fact they changed it without putting it in writing and it effectively mislead me for three years while I worked on that program. So, good and bad there. Q. Influenced by in-service training? A. Well, not by in-service. I rarely found much in the in- service that was of value. Short-term value yes, but nothing long term that I really ever felt but my own personal education I pursued statistics, which has done a lot. I pursued my master's in educational technology and I've learned a lot about development of materials from that and as a result of the statistics I got into the community college. I teach part-time there, so that's, all of my self-education, that's the formal and then I've taught myself electronics and things like that that I pursue strictly as a hobby and computer programming, which I've done professionally -- that's all self-taught. So my own self-education has been a major influence in my life. Q. Have you felt influence from any outside source where you needed to get a master's and had you felt -- A. Well, we now have a requirement in this district, or not in this district but in the state, you have to to renew your teaching certificate you now have to have a master's. Q. I didn't know that. When did that start? A. The last few years here. You now have to, before you get your basic, well what do you call it. Q. There's a standard and a basic? A. Yah. Basic secondary certificate has to be renewed and you have to have a master's degree to renew it as I understand it. Now, I came in before that. I have what is called a standard secondary certificate which is renewable with continuing education or continuous service, so I never paid much attention to the specifics of the law but my understanding is that now you have to have a master's degree to renew it so you have six years to get your master's after you get your bachelors. Q. Is that K-8, I mean K-12? A. As far as I know its, elementary and secondary. I wouldn't swear to that but, other than that I believe my requirements in the class room have always preceded the actual course. I mean I was a programmer before I taught programming and I'd already had the statistic classes before I started teaching statistics in the community college so I can't think of any specific instance where I've gone out to get the training for a specific curriculum class. Q. Influenced by students? A. Many, many, many. Of course every student you interact with shapes your attitudes and your willingness to work. One that specifically comes to mind is one that I had in summer school that positively effect, of course there are many positives and many, many negatives. But this particular girl was very defeatist in her attitude -- "I can't do this, I can't do this" and I kept encouraging her. "Yes you can, yes you can. Here's what you do." And I just kept pushing her and she finally got through summer school and got a "C" and went on to another class and now she's at the community college and I got some nice letters from her parents and I really felt that I had an effect on pushing her and getting her through that course that made her want to go on so that one, that's the first one that comes to mind. There've been others of that nature and somewhere I've really gotten renown. Maybe I've said, "Why am I doing this" too. So there's a lot of ups and downs in that area. Q. Influenced by colleagues? A. Not a specific incident but when I came here, shortly after I came here, I've never in my limited experience with other departments come into a situation where the, there was such closeness in a department in terms of being willing to help one another. We work together on tests, on planning, there's just no worries about sharing materials. That's one of the reasons I'm very much opposed to career ladder type schemes because everybody I've talked to in (city name) where they have it and other places, it's always "I've got to get this stuff and I don't want anybody else to have it because it effects my pay." And I think that's the wrong attitude to have. Here we share tests, we share materials, if we come up with a good idea we share that. It's a very sharing attitude and that's one of the reasons that I would not want to go to another school particularly. As long as that kind of comradery among the teachers is there, I think that's an important part of preventing burn-out and we certainly all in this profession experience some degree of burn-out, but some of that helps in terms of you don't have this huge pile of work that you have to do all by yourself. You can get help with it. Q. Influenced by community? A. Not the community in general, just specific individuals. Is that --? Q. Well, in the community as a whole. Sometimes there's a sense of what the parents as a whole or as a community wants, and I wondered if there's a sense of that and if that influences decisions you make in your work life. A. Only in general way. I can't say I've ever said, "Oh, the parents want this to happen so I'm going to change my attitude toward them." I know that the vast majority of parents in this district are college-oriented that is, they expect, virtually everybody expects their children to go to college and so I make the assumption that people are going to college and what they will need based on that. So in that sense, yes, I've adjusted my goals and my procedures to that end. Whereas, previously with the Indians at the HHH School, that was a very, very, well, it was a high priority but a low potential. When you're talking about a sophomore or junior in high school who has roughly a 3.0 grade level, not grade point average but that he's operating at a third grade mathematics and English, you know, the prospects of him going to community college are virtually nil much else anything else. So that was a very functionally oriented type of curriculum. Getting them into being able to write a check or balance an account, whereas here it is very much college oriented. So I gear the theory and that sort of thing toward that. Q. Influence from colleges? A. In terms of what I know the students will need both in terms of curriculum and work habits, I try to emphasize that. Taking notes, for example. Many of the students don't want to take notes. Well, I badger them about it. I say "you're going to have to go this. You're going to have to do this". Thinking skills -- "Oh, yah sure" is their reaction. But I know darn well that most of the jobs out there are not going to pay them to sit and do something on paper. They are going to have to problem solve in one form or another either with people or with physical problems. If they're going into engineering or something like that, or anything I suppose. There are very few manual labor type, what I call "idiot jobs" where you do the same thing over and over and over again. People just don't pay very much to do that any more. Cleaning rooms is not exactly, is not a bad job if that's what you're qualified for, but in terms of these students being college bound, I think they have to have certain skills, social skills as well as academic skills, so preparing them for what I know they're going to run into both at college and in life has directed me in terms of the way I treat them. Q. Creative attempt that was thwarted? A. Yes, I can. We put into effect a few years ago a policy where pre-Algebra students and Algebra students who did not have their homework done would have to come in that day after school, we called it a homework detention. And because it was our suspicion that if we could get the students doing their homework their grades would go up. So we, voluntarily, rotated monitoring this detention. And it proved out. The grades went dramatically up by the end of the first semester and continued relatively, although not quite as good, much higher than we would have expected normally in the second semester. So, we put it to the district and said, "Look we've got this program. It seems to work, but we can't go on spending our afternoons here because people have other jobs or they have this, we need some funding to continue the program, either to hire a monitor or pay a stipend." And basically we were told, "Oh gee, that's a wonderful program. Keep doing it for nothing." And so, effectively because of funding and that was not when we had the big crunch on, I mean funding has gotten a lot tighter since then, basically because there was no support at district, we had support locally here within the school but as soon as we went to district with the idea, it was basically pooh-poohed in spite of the fact that we had as dramatic results we did during the voluntary year. So, I think district effectively thwarted us there. Q. Failed attempt to influence you? A. There was something we tried to do? Q. Well, something you were told to do and you didn't believe in it and how you worked around it. A. Oh, I see, o.k. Well, in terms of some of the special ed requirements. Some of the things I was telling you about earlier -- I don't believe in many of those things such as changing the grading scales. If the student is slow and needs more time to work on a test, I don't have a problem with that. Having an aid there to help them with the test, which has been suggested, I did not think was appropriate and I worked around it by refusing to do it. And, basically no one wanted to pursue it so I got away with holding my ground. I wouldn't say I circumvented it, per se, but I've always taken, in cases like that where I've disagreed with it I've tried to put forth acceptable alternatives like giving them more time, coming in at lunch and finishing, things like that. That's about the only thing I can think of where we've been dictated to do something and I've tried to get around it. Q. And you were able to refuse to do those things that you're not comfortable with without conflict? A. Pretty much, yah. Oh, once in a while you'll get one where they say, "Here it is. This is what you're going to do" and you do it but those have been far and few between. Q. Bureaucratic constraints on teachers? A. Primarily that brings to mind these kinds of requirements that we've been given such as this 501 or 503, whatever the name of it is in terms of having to do things for students even if they aren't identified. Also, things like testing. Mandated testing. Mandated books. Free books where -- basically anything that has been mandated but isn't funded. Our legislature, particularly the state legislature is fond of mandating things and then not providing any funding for it even though it may cost a great deal to do it. Now, restate the question -- I've felt that I've got off track back there. Q. Bureaucratic constraints? A,. That's the first thing that comes to my mind. Unfunded requirements. Things that we have to do and things that I don't think are, have any meaning. Like achievement testing - - mandated state achievement testing which has gotten big press. Well, those tests are meaningless. We give them and they come back with the results. As far as I'm concerned, and I have some background in statistics and testing. When I look at one of those tests even though they can make the statistics lie and say they are very valid, I don't think they are. In my experience, most of those things if they say they are grade 9 it means they're somewhere between 6 and 12, so in terms of measuring achievement I think that's a very fallacious kind of thing but it makes legislators look good if they can say "Look, we've done this, this and this" and the public buys into it. That's all bureaucratic nonsense as far as I'm concerned and it has caused a great deal of problems in terms of educators in general. Now, we don't run into so much of that here because we tend to top out on the tests. Everybody tops out at 12-0, twelfth grade or 12-9 or whatever it is, so that makes us look good and I don't feel we're that much better than a lot of the other schools that are not doing that. Q. Rank four activities. A. O.k. The one I think I have the most control of to the one I have the least control of. B=1, C=-2, A=3, and 4=D because we are very restricted in what we can do in terms of discipline. There are a lot of things we can get done but there's a lot of bureaucracy in getting them done and whether we'll get support for the things we try is highly questionable at any given time. Q. Where does that bureaucracy come from? Is it local? A. Yah. The school. Its gotten better. There are very defined practices but I think in some cases we're subverted by the administration on things where certain people get more favors and certain people get less favors in terms of students. A particular student might get, like seniors who go over the absence, well they want to get them out of here. They don't want to hold them back. But a junior in the same circumstances, they say "out the door. you're suspended." Q. That decision is basically made by the principal? A. Well, by the whole administration. The assistant principal and sometimes the principal and whether someone will be retained in class or not, and I don't feel that it's consistent but I bow to their knowledge of the situation. There may be circumstances that I know nothing about and probably don't need to know about so I'm willing to live with that inconsistency until it becomes a greater problem than it is. But on the surface it doesn't seem like there's consistency among that, so that's why I say discipline is I have the least control over discipline. Q. One last question - survey.